Sunday, 24 January 2010

What's your opinion on the allocation of multiple gets hot wounds?

After my last blog and a couple of posts on others, I thought I'd post this and get the communities opinions on the allocation of multiple 'Gets hot' wounds. Now I want to make clear from the start that is is simply a call out for your opinions, it's not a discussion, it's not a debate. As far as I'm concerned, unless you're Alessio Cavatore or one of the other authors of the rulebook, then you're opinion carries no more weight than anyone else's.

So, on that basis, everyone gets one chance to post in the comments their opinion. There's going to be no back and forth, no trying to disprove someone else's opinion and the only commenting on other peoples opinions I'm going to allow is simply along the lines of 'I agree with .......' to simply save you having to type out the same thing that someone else has already posted. Any posts that don't comply to this rule will be removed. We all left that  s*** behind us on the forums and I'm damned if I'm going to bring it onto my blog.

Right, back to the subject matter .....

For the purpose of this exercise, we'll work on the example of an Imperial Guard command squad with four plasma gunners in it, firing rapid fire and rolling two 1's to hit and therefore taking 2 Get's hot wounds.

Now, in previous comments and posts, I heard quite a few different ways of allocating these wounds, from lumping them all on one guy, to distributing them evenly, to rolling each guy separately.

Now my opinion is ...........

That you have to roll each guy separately so that any 1's are applied to that specific model. I base this opinion of the following. Page 31 of rulebook states "For each result of a 1 rolled on it's to hit rolls, the firing model suffers a wound.".

For me, then sentence is a singular one, it doesn't say unit, so they can't be passed on to non plasma guys in the unit. It doesn't say 'models', so it can't be passed between plasma gunners or all lumped on one guy. It says 'model', and so in my opinion, that means that you have to roll separately for each plasma gunner, so that you can determine if that model firing has rolled a 1 and suffers a wound.

Well, that my opinion guys, I can't wait to hear yours, just remember the rules. Get commenting guys!


Matt said...

I am in the boat with ya bud, I always role my plasmas singularly. But I usually only have 1 or 2 in a squad then if it gets hot i role there saves seperately for just the model with the plasma. Many a sgt's have I lost to gets hot rolls. I think as you listed the rule in the book is pretty clear on the shooting model takes the wound. Just my 2cents.

Soundwave said...

I agree with you as well.

Guard are quite an anomaly when it comes to the rule, as other than Dev squads with plasma cannons I can't think of another time when more than 1 guy has the same type of plasma weapon.

As such, I always roll my guys seperately or with different colour dice.

Mordian7th said...

Indeed - I just played a game yesterday with all sorts of plasma weapons, and the way we play it is that the gets hot applies to the model carrying the weapon. In the case of units containing multiple types of plasma-armed models, we roll different colored dice for each on the to hit roll: "Okay, the Captain with the plasma pistol is the black die, the two plasma gunners are the red dice, and the lasrifles are the white dice". If the black die comes up a one, then it's the Captain's pistol that got hot; one cannot attempt to foist it off on another plasma gunner, and we would certainly never consider that one of the lasgunners 'takes the hit'.

Of course, we play for fun for the most part so we always get a good laugh when somebody gets melted by their own plasma pistol. It's just one of the drawbacks to arming your troops with such a nasty weapon!

Tristan said...

So if sternguard fire their AP3 rounds, do you roll each individual marine seperately?

eriochrome said...

Wounds must go on a plasmagunner and unless you roll each gunner attacks separately (thus finding out exactly which guy takes each get hits rules for either single or double) every gets hot must be spread out to a different gunner.

davetaylor said...

The way I've done it in the past is roll the same colored dice for all of the same type of plasma weapon. So, red dice for my two double-tapping plasma gunners, black dice for my plasma pistol toting Senior officer, and white dice for the lasguns.

If I roll any 1's on the red dice, I roll for saves, if I fail one, then I remove one gunner. If I fail two saves then I remove them both.

While I guess it's not the most statistically correct method, it does keep the game rolling. I'd do it the same way for my Sternguard firing their AP3 rounds.

My general thought is, that as long as both players are rolling the same way, then everything is fine.


Draz said...

I would go with Dave on this one with the use of different colours. The reasoning for this is that on p18 of the rule book it states that a units weapons are fired simultaneously and that different weapons use different colours.

Although it only gives an example of two singular special weapons that would use different colours, my logic would dictate that it would count the same as multiple specials of the same type.

However, it does state you can make seperate dice rolls for different weapons or shooters, so personally there is no right or wrong. As long as it is made clear to the opponent before the rolls.

Flekkzo said...

Guess I am partly at fault here:) Sorry guys. I agree with the post and I think that all comments are valid. House rules are a good thing as well, as long as everyone knows which house they are in:)

Also makes me wish that someone made weapon specific dice. There are many occasions where the same roll is made with different effects after all.

Just Chris said...

The rule book literally says: 'Gets hot!' represents the penchant of certain unstable weapons for overloading and badly burning their user.

The rest said pretty much in the article.

You often find rules that have grey areas, this isn't one of them and is quite specific with the wording.

So I would say I agree with it being taken on that single model that has the weapon.

If you have multiple 'Gets hot!' weapons in a unit rolling individually would be the best way I think.

sonsoftaurus said...

I don't understand rules-wise how there's even really a debate about this. The way you present it in the OP is just...the way it is, not an opinion.

In my opinion of course. ;-)

Gets Hot! specifies that the firing model takes the hit, which bypasses the normal wound allocation procedure. Roll the shots and saves individually.

The arguments against seem to mostly be "it takes too long" vs. any real rule-based contention. For the most part this really shouldn't take long and only really comes up when each model is firing multiple shots, and if you think about it there are lots of different ways to speed the process up.

Granted, if I was running something like an old LatD mutant squad with Gets Hot firearms I might just roll the dice as a batch. If anyone wants to do so IMO they're welcome to since it works to their disadvantage.

Col. Corbane said...

Just wanted to say thanks for all the comments so far. I'm really chuffed on how well you've all handled the comments even though there a few slight differences of opinion.

@Flek - don't apologise mate, it wasn't you. This issues been flying around the online community for a long time.

Keep your opinions coming guys!

On the Sternguard, I've never even read their entry or played against them, so I can't comment but I think I'm going to go and have a nose at them, they sound nasty!

Flekkzo said...

@Corbana Hehe, no worries. Just had the feeling that I tipped the scales:)

Speaking of complicated rules for shooting, try running Gun Mages in Warmachine. You will wear your opponent down by sheer mass of rules. Treating units as one entity is not a bad idea at all, as long as you do it all the way *cough* wounds allocation *cough*

Soundwave said...

@Corbane - the Sternguard are just plain nasty. The first time I fielded them against my then Eldar opponent he was so shocked at them having so many different modes of fire they were subject to comments such as "Oh look we're Sternguard with our Anti-Everything Death Star rounds!"

Evil beggars

Max said...

I generally roll all of the plasmas at a time and then roll all of the gets hots at one time. Generally results in more dead plasma gunners than I like, but that's been my interpretation.

Raptor1313 said...

The rule seems pretty clear to me. The firing model takes the wound.

So if you have four plasma gunners, you roll them seperately. Roll in batches, roll with different colored dice, do whatever, but it's the individual guns we're tracking here. Maybe one of them pops twice; maybe one of them doesn't pop at all.

Seems simple to me.

Anything else just feels like "Well, I want to save a minute here.." and ignore the rule.

Uncle Puck said...

I agree with how you interpreted it, Col., and that's how I play it.

I also do it as Dave Taylor does, with colored dice. So if that officer with the Plasma Pistol suffers a Get's Hot rule, and rolls that 1, so long officer. But then, I like to have a medic on hand, and carapace armor to help mitigate that...

But let's throw in a variable... what if it was your Company Commander, and he happens to have bodyguards? Do they take that plasma wound for the officer?

~ Pax Imperi Pax Urbis

Col. Corbane said...

@Flek - don't go throwing another ruleset at me mate, the old grey matter is struggling to handle one, never mind two - lol.

@SW - ah mate, after a bit of thought, I'm not really worried about sternguard. When your troops die outright on a 3+ with no saves to every basic weapon in the game, bigger nasty weapons don't really worry you. If my opponent wants to spend points on nasty weapons, I'm happy for him to go for it. Well, unless they have big blast templates, then I'm worried.

@UPuck - On the bodyguard thing, the codex say that they can take on wounds when 'wounded by the enemy', so I don't think they can take the commanders gets hot wounds, but that's just my opinion ;-)

Frag_Dad said...

Like several others, I see no grey area here - the firing model must take the wound. I don't see any ambiguity in that!

Flekkzo said...

@Corbana But that would give you one more syndrome to fall victim to!:) DGS. Different Game Syndrome. Bet there are a number of people suffering from that:)

Reminds me of a rule that seems to be forgotten in battle reports I've read. If you are falling back, you can still shoot (as if you were moving, I.e. no Heavy weapons). Is this something that is just left out or generally just "better they shoot than assault?". Because it seems to be a fairly common tactic to stay within 6" of a falling back unit:)

Dverning said...

Corb, I agree with your method in the post.

Another point worth reading is BRB, page 18, "Fast Rolling". The option to group weapon fire and roll all the dice at the same time is a convention to speed up the game, not a rule. If there's potential for different effect (such as Gets Hot Plasmas), the rule is to use different color dice for each OR roll and resolve each shooter individually. It's pretty black and white when you look at that rule.

Dave's convention is quick, easy and can result in more casualties to his forces, so I don't see many people complaining about doing it that way either.

Itkovian said...

I agree with the majority of the posts above. Just roll a different colour for each individual weapon with the Get's Hot rule and work them out on a firer-by-firer basis. Anyone trying to change that is either working for an advantage, or to save time (the former being bad, the latter being "meh" seen as it puts the firing squad at a disadvantage).

I can see your opponent getting frustrated when you're rapid-firing 10-man sternguard squads but hey, that's just the rules. Though 40k has been streamlined in the last few editions, it is still a very slow game to play (as are the vast majority of wargames), so what's a couple of extra minutes?

Justin Matters said...

As you have said in your post the rule is quite clear the firing model gets the wound.

If you forget and roll all your plasma guys together, sportsmanship dictates that you assign wounds to separate plasma guy models in the least favourable configuration.

Gewaltatron said...

sometimes, rules lead to discussions without any need to! As the majority already sad, seperating your Plasma ( or what else ) weapons when it comes to throwing dices will absolutely forbid any rule discussion. So you have 2 Plasma weapons firing rapid fire, role first 2 dices for the first guy and then 2 dices for the guy number two. If any (or even both) of each individual throws was a 1 he takes the wound(s) and nobody else! I don't see any problem here.
And to be honest, anybody (I"m thinking of these tournament guys) who tries to start a discussion during a game about is simply ridiculous.